How suicide taught me to choose differently

I started my show as a self-healing project. I never knew it was going to grow into a a show. I just was afraid of public speaking and I had anxiety about

it and I decided to voluntarily expose myself to it. And it turns out that people started to take to it.

He spent 17 years fixing people's spines and then he nearly lost his own life.

So, welcome back to the show. This is the root of all success. I'm the real Jason Duncan. This is episode number 351. My guest today is Dr. JC Dornick,

otherwise known as Dragon. He's a health transformation coach. He's an author,

speaker. Um, you know, he's just a guy known for just just being who he is and talking about what makes sense. Yeah.

And after 17 years after being a doctor of chiropractic with a deep specialization in neuroscience and human

behavior, JC walked away from a clinical practice to pursue something bigger, and that's helping people rewire their minds

and reclaim control of their lives. He's the creator of the interface response system, IRS, the better IRS, of course,

a framework designed to eliminate indecision, uh eliminate procrastination, eliminate self-doubt,

and he's the author of the brand new book Makes Sense, rewire your mind, and transform your life. But before all of

that, and before any of that ever happened, JC survived a moment of total darkness that became the fuel for everything that he now builds. So JC,

welcome to the show.

Yeah, and you'd think that that was the worst day of my life when, and I'm sure we'll get into that, but the true worst day of my life was the day that I walked

away from my practice having not yet met Jason Duncan.

That was lean into the mic a little bit closer when you say that.

Oh, you got me. Yeah. No, that it's it's a just an honor and a privilege to be here. And uh one of the things you

forgot to say in the intro is the fact that you and I have become great friends. I mean I really consider you a

great friend of mine and I have nothing but respect for you. So it's an honor to be here.

Yeah. Thank you. And likewise we uh for the audience's sake. So JC and I met as we were both speakers on stage in

Denver, Colorado at an event back in 2021. And uh had JC come on my show, you know, not too long after that. He was on episode number 65 originally. Wow.

And today is episode number 352. I I must be like 90 years old by now.

Yeah. So, uh you know, we we we hit it off, stayed in touch, and then JC came and spoke uh for my retreat for my

mastermind members in October of last year in 2025. And then he invited me to come speak at one of his events in Chicago in February of 2026. And here we

are in March of 2026 recording this show. So, uh, it's awesome to be with you, man.

Yeah. Yeah. We can't get enough of each other.

So, JC, you've you've openly said that you navigated suicide. Yeah.

And that you were in a place that most people don't come back from the same way. So, walk me through that moment.

What what what was actually happened in your life that brought you to that point?

Yeah. You know, every every time somebody asks me that question, the first thing that happens is I get a pang of anxiety, but then I quickly shift

using my systems and I recognize that it was a it was a glorious day. It was a blessing. Um, I think a lot of people

probably have tangled with those thoughts. Um, and ironically, I had one of my best friends when I was in 10th grade uh kill himself. So, you know,

I've had my little touches, but I I never thought that I would ever go beyond like having some sort of dark passenger thought about it cuz I was I

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would call I would say I was the most confident borderline cocky person you ever met. I mean, I actually probably is

safe to say that most people didn't like me because of how confident I was. So,

you know, as it turns out, you know, I just had my dream life laid out in front of me, you know, because I was a very

very, you know, driven guy. I I got hired on as the apprentice to the most successful chiropractor in in New York.

And, you know, I was going to work for him and then take over his practice and fly around on jets for the rest of my life. You know, that it was all set up

and I was excited about that. Um, and all I can say is there's a lot going on at that time of my life, but you know, I could handle anything. I was indestruct.

I was a superhero. And I got on the train. I took it I used to take an early train into the city. And um, long story

short, about halfway into the 45minute trip, um, I just all of a sudden had

this feeling come over me. I thought I was having a heart attack. And it was something that I'd never felt before.

And it was enough to take this confident, cocky guy and and make him take note of it, right? Cuz I I would usually just bypass anything. And um

you know, my chest tightened up. I was sweating a little bit. I got a little bit dizzy. And all I could tell you is

that if I just lost my confidence all of a sudden. So, you know, I did what most people would do in that situation.

Uh, I just got off the train, went over the other side of the other platform,

got back on, went the other way, and made up a story about why I couldn't come in that day. And I just figured,

hey, just like they say, this too shall pass. That started about a threemonth

process or, you know, time period where I just progressively went deeper and deeper and deeper into, I guess, what you would call a depression.

And how old were you? How old are you when this is going on?

You know, it's so funny when people ask me that question. I'm so far removed from that reality right now. But I was,

you know, I had graduated college and then I went to about 5 years of chiropractic school. So, I was in my like later 20s.

Yeah. Were you married?

Well, I was about to get married. I was engaged and uh marrying the girl next door and that was part of the whole thing. We were going to have the picket

fence and all that stuff, you know. So I it was all it was all there. Everything that I ever wanted was right in front of me. But then all of a sudden, you know,

I came to learn later that it was like a panic attack. And if you're a real confident, cocky guy, you don't really admit you're having a panic attack until

you have to. So anyway, three three months of just me seeing nothing

but the idea of checking out, closing the curtains, turning off the lights.

You know, I all I can tell you, and I'm sure somebody listening has heard had this before, um my certainty

to the highest degree was that the only solution for me was to die. And I couldn't rationalize it. I couldn't tell

you like here's a good idea I have. But uh that's what it was. And naturally, my parents and all my friends, you know,

the wedding was showing signs of being off. I couldn't even talk to my fiance,

you know, like I had just completely holes in my shirt, no shower, no shave,

smelly, and all I wanted to do was have people leave me alone so I could just leave.

So, you were you were actively working as a doctor at this time.

Yeah. In the number one practice in the city. Yep.

So, I'm going to ask you a personal question. How much money were you making when this happened annually? What was your What were you making? Well, the the chiropractors and the doctors out there

are going to, you know, give me a fist pump here. It wasn't a lot, you know,

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back back in that day. Back in the old days, um, you know, I think I was probably making like 50 grand a year,

but working harder than the doctor, you know, so it was it was a it was a tough situation, but hey,

you want to be the best, you got to do the do that work. So, I had no problem with it. Well, the reason I asked the question is I think a lot of people when they look at doctors, they make assumptions.

Yeah.

Uh about their lifestyle or or money or what that what that might mean. And here we are, we have a a high performing doctor, chirop doctor of chiropractic

working on I mean you were working with uh professional athletes, high movie stars, professional athletes. I mean, you were you were in

proximity to some of the world's most powerful people and uh but but I would say only of course this is this is what

20 years 20 plus years ago. So $50,000 is not a lot of money to work that hard.

Was the money pressure something that caused you to have that feeling or was this totally different?

Not at all because because I was in position within probably a year to be making more money than I had ever dreamed, you know.

So, so I I understood and then also I I was not I just got out of school, you know, I I I was not ready to make the

big money. It was like a residency or something like that. So, no, money wasn't a factor. As a matter of fact,

you know, I was just starting off my life. I I didn't have like too many bills. I think I was living with my mom and I was getting ready to move into

like a little apartment with my my fiance. So, yeah. Interesting. I never thought of that. Yeah. So the interface response system,

I mentioned this in the intro, the IRS that you you built this around three specific problems, which is indecision, procrastination, and self-doubt.

So were those your own patterns first,

or was it something you caught kept seeing in other people until you had to build something to address it? you know

this what what happened was and you know just to finish the story my I had an awakening and I didn't understand how I

woke up and the interface response system was you know something that I built because I wanted to figure out you

know how to never have that happen again for myself but also you know I if if you live in a world full of thirsty people and you find a source of water you kind

of want to share that around so you know last ditch effort. My mom took me to a therapist and I I'll I'll give you the

short story here. Um and I just wanted to check out. I didn't want to see a therapist, but I I just did it because I

I would have done anything. And um you know, the therapist sat down and she basically just started asking me basic questions about why I wanted to kill

myself and all that stuff. But she took me down this path of asking me questions that, you know, she said, "When did when

did this start?" you know, and I I made this distinction that it was in July.

And I remember she was asking me some questions and something started to unwind in me. I I was still a a mess, but she started asking me questions. Oh,

really? What's the significance of July?

And I said, "Oh, it's my birthday." She goes, "Tell me about your birthday." I said, "Oh, I don't want to talk about my birthday. I don't like my birthday."

Never did. Still don't. Right. But I didn't know why I didn't like my birthday. So, she says, "Okay." And she moved on. She said, "What about your

parents?" And she I said, 'What about my parents?' She said, 'Are they still married?' And I said, "Uh, no, they're divorced."

And once again, I felt something unwinding. And then she asked this question, and I I don't even remember this woman's name, by the way, because I

only saw her once. But she asked this question. She said, "When it was like this, when did they get divorced?" It was like slow motion. Yeah.

And my the first chapter in my in my book is called Snap because what happened right there is something went like this.

And in that instant moment, seconds,

it's like my brain pulled this file of all these things that happened that I had tucked under the carpet. And I

realized that when I was 11 years old on my birthday, I walked in my house. My mom was at the base of the stairs in her underwear, not normal, and she was

crying. and I was coming home for a bowling party and cake and balloons and all that stuff. And I said, "Mom, what's wrong?" And she looked at me and she

said, "Your father's leaving us." Now, I didn't know what that meant cuz my dad was always traveling, but I probably

kind of did. And all I knew is that my birthday got bumped and I walked out the door. But when I recalled that event

that I had completely compartmentalized and tucked away and everything started to make sense, hence

the name of my book and it was freeing and I went from completely offline to online. So, as I was saying before, I

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made two decisions that day because everything is on the end or the other side of making a decision like a real decision that accepts no matter what happens.

And that first decision was that I decided that I was never going to allow myself to get in that place again to believe that there was no way, right?

Never going to happen again. And also I was going to spend the rest of my life figuring out what happened in that conversation with that woman so that I

could do it for myself but also help other people. And I dedicated my life to it. So the interface response system is

a four-step process that helps people first of all understand the way that the brain works and the way that the brain

is very very easily persuaded from birth. We've all been persuaded, but persuaded to to look at your thoughts and feelings and identify yourself by

them and believe them and how to stop that from happening and put yourself back in control as a shot caller and

dominant force of your life. So that's the four-step system was about 10 15

years of me figuring out what exactly happened and now I've dedicated my life to it. So, I want to I want to ask a question before I get into a little bit

more about the book. When is your birthday?

Jesus, Jason, you really want to hurt me, don't you? No, I'm just kidding.

No, no. So, it's much it's a much better day. But, um, it's July 17th, 1971. This dragon is 54.

All right. So, uh, here's here's something you said. You said, "Didn't like I never like my birthday."

It was the snap that you figured out with the therapist. You said, "But I still don't."

Well, I want to, as a friend, I want to push you into redeeming that day. Yeah. Yeah.

Redeem it. Bring it back and make that the day of rebirth. It's like, listen,

man. That day was a day that the world fell down around me and it ruined the next x number of decades or years of my life. But I'm claiming it back. Dog on

it. It's going to be my day and I'm going to celebrate who I am, who I've become, and the people you blessed in your life. So, so all of that sounds

great and I do that. I I So part of part of the interface response system is that

you have to recognize that you get to choose. So when I hear you say that, I still get the visceral feeling of not

liking my birthday. That's why sometimes you'll hear me say that. But what's different now is that I am the dominant

force and and shot caller. So, I decide that I'm going to feel that way, but

have a good birthday anyway. So, I I want people to understand that like no matter how far you get with personal growth and self-development or even

business growth and clarity and things like that, it doesn't change who you are and your knee-jerk, you know, visceral

response to things kicks up without asking you for permission. But what we can do is respond to it as well. It's

not just responding to other people and things in life. We also have to be able to assess and respond to what we're

thinking. So yeah, I I still if you ever hear me say, "Yeah, I still don't like my birthday." You're just catching me at the forefront of the visceral response,

but I get to choose what happens next.

So thanks for the reminder. So in your book you your your book talks about the idea of pushing this concept of clarity before action. Yeah.

And and most of the entrepreneurial world says move fast figure it out as you go. Yeah.

Now I want to ask you have you seen that approach actually work like the move fast figure it out as you go or is that actually just a story that we

successful people tell themselves in hindsight? I don't like to speak for other people.

Right. Um, and what I would say is that I think life happens in seasons and there's no mistakes. So, but the real

question is what do you mean by does it work? So, does driving at life to that

degree borderline becoming obsessed with your goals get you there? Sure. But at what cost? Right? You know, I I like to

my my new philosophy of success is to live your life around what matters most.

You know, and I think that's probably why you and I become friends. You know,

you and I are big goal- driven people and we have, you know, big desires, but at the end of the day, that stuff means nothing. We just care about our kids,

you know, and our and our and our lovely wives. So, um, yeah, it works. But once again, it it depends on what you mean by

works. You know, I won't tell you that I don't have big goals and I don't want to make tons of money and I don't want to

exit without exiting and all of that stuff. I want I want all that stuff, but it's not what I want most, right? What I

want most now are the things that I already have,

right? I live in I live more in the present moment. I I like to say we need to learn how to unwrap the present moment. And what's interesting is is

that I have everything that I've ever wanted already. So when I set goals to get more,

if I'm not careful and I'm too driven and obsessed with that, I'm living in this illusion that the things that I

want in life are in the not now. And too many people forget about the now and everything is perfect. If you're alive,

you got it made. You got it made, you know. So, we got a best very good friend of the family that's on her deathbed

right now. She doesn't care about selling her company or anything like that right now. She just cares about

having just one more minute with her family. And in this house, we live like that where we try to live like that

every day and, you know, make sure that we're a little bit more conscious about how much time and effort we're putting into the not now.

All right. Before we get back to JC, I want to take just a second to ask you,

Mr. and Mrs. Listener, for something small that makes a real difference for me and for everybody just like you as

listeners. If you've been getting value from this show today, I'm talking to JC Dornick or any of the other shows you've heard. I want you to take 30 seconds

right now and leave a fivestar review if you think it's worth it. Apple, Spotify,

you know, wherever you're listening, tap the stars, tell people why you listen.

It helps more entrepreneurs find the show and I read those reviews and they do matter more than you know. Now, a

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Now, let's talk to JC some more. So um Cairo mission that took you to some of the most uh resource scarce places on

earth to provide health care. What did uh what did you see in those communities that changed what you believed about uh

human resilience and and and how did how did that show up eventually in the framework that you built?

So, so it's interesting, you know, so keep in mind when I made this decision,

you know, and this is part of my book. I I I remember I woke up this morning and this is in the repair phase, you know,

as as I'm seeking answers and everything like that. I woke up and uh I call this the lightning bolt moment. And I woke up

and I just had this what Martin Luther King called the fierce urgency of now. I I just realized that I wasn't really

making an impact. I was I was successful as a chiropractor and I had made so much progress since this dark time and I was

back in control and I was seeking and learning, but when I stepped back, I I realized who the hell knows even knows

what you're doing. And like I could go two neighborhoods down and nobody even knows who I was. So I just felt like there was more. So that was the first

thing that I decided to do is I I don't I just was called, you know, was like a come to Jesus moment. I was called to do mission work. I don't even know what

that meant. So all I knew was Doctors Without Borders. And I went and I I

said, "Sign me up. I want to I want to take me wherever you want. I'm going to sign up to do, you know, humanitarian work." And I remember they said, "Oh,

you're a chiropractor." and they go,

"Well, you could come and assist the doctors, but" and I didn't like that, you know, listen, my ego didn't go away, and I don't have a problem with egos.

So, I ended up starting Cairo mission kind of out of spite at first, but um the demand was that there was no natural

proactive measure when there was crisis like the earthquakes in Haiti. you know,

all the emergency companies would come in. UNICEF and MedSense on Frontier and and the Red Cross, but they would just come in for the crisis and they would leave without doing anything after. So,

I had this idea to create something like that, but that would set up infrastructure, build orphanages,

schools, hospitals, and things like that that would stay there after the crisis.

So, that was Cairo mission. Um, but what's really important about that because that took 15 years of my life and played a role in my first divorce,

you know, because I was a mission man and and it's very easy to justify being a mission man. I got to go to Haiti.

There was an earthquake, you know, but I was going there a lot and um what I didn't realize at the time because I

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thought I was an angel from heaven and I was getting all these accolades. I got humanitarian of the year in front of 4,000 people. Oh, no. No, no, no, no.

Not me. I'm I'm doing it for them. But I had this moment.

Got a lot of moments. That's my book goes over these moments. But I was sitting at a bar in Haiti with a VIP

speaker that we had flown in to talk to our doctors. We took thousands of doctors through that and we did a lot of great stuff. But uh he was sitting

there, we're having a drink and I, you know, I was kind of happy about myself.

I was waiting for him to tell me how wonderful I was for everything I was doing because that's what everybody did.

And he was smart enough. His name is Fabricio Mancini. He's a great friend now. And he said to me, he goes, "Let me

ask you a question, JC. Why do you do this?" And I said, "Well, because it's the right thing to do." And then he said, this is this was a rough moment.

And then he said to me, he goes, "But what's in it for you?" And I said, "Oh, nothing." I said, "I'm here for them. I,

you know, see a needed, feel a need. I'm just a humble servant like that." And he looked at me right in the eyes and said

something that nobody ever said to this confident guy. He goes, "Bullshit."

And I was like, "What is this about to be?" So, he basically asked me, he goes,

he he basically taught me that the real reason I was doing it was because it made me feel better about myself. And I never thought of that before. And

there's nothing wrong with doing something noble. But I thought that I had nothing to do with it. And that was

the moment, Jason, where I realized that I was not happy at home. I love my children, but I was I was not happy in

my marriage. And I had strategically created a situation where I was getting positive feedback to make me feel better

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about myself cuz I I wasn't a happy person at the time and an excuse to get away from home. So what I did from that

moment, you know, when something happens to me, when a lightning bolt strikes, I obviously I do something. I went and realized I had to get divorced. I had to

stop doing the mission work and come home and be a good dad. So that put me into the I gave that whole organization

away. Still should have talked to Jason Duncan about that one, too.

You came too late into my life, my friend.

But uh folks, did you hear what he said? He like because of all this crap going in his life, he gave his entire I gave my practice away when I walked away from the p I didn't sell my

practice. I gave but listen there's there is a little bit of credibility to um somebody that you know I mean look my

my directive was not where it was it would be now you know I it wasn't that I was stupid I just was very very much

entrenched in the process and listening to God and listening to the universe and I was just moving through life and guess what it's put me here where I am today

where I'm great friends with Jason Duncan And uh I've got a lot of things to be blessed about. But you know, that's kind

of the way my life has been run is I very much have learned how to pay attention and I progressively have become armed

with the weapon of awareness. Um where I don't sleepwalk anymore, you know. So that's what all of these lessons that

you'll read about in the book have taught me. So everybody needs to go get the book.

Makes sense. Um, JC, what's something what's something that you used to believe? I mean, it could be about yourself,

about what healing looks like, about what it takes to actually change anything. What's something used to believe that you simply don't believe anymore?

Oh, God, I could write a book about that. You just gave me an idea for a new book. Um, I would say a big big thing

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that has changed and it's not my fault that I used to believe in it. It's what I was taught and it was what society taught me, what my mother,

father, teacher, preacher, society and most people taught me. And that I I realize that most people, including

myself or anybody listening, most people aren't stuck in life because they're broken.

You know, I always thought that if I was stuck or jammed up that there was something wrong with me. Most people aren't stuck in life, Jason, because

they're broken. They're stuck because they don't understand how their perception of life is shaping their

reality. So that's the biggest distinction that I've ever made is that I don't always believe

what I see. I was taught that seeing is believing.

But what I never knew is how persuaded and conditioned the seer was. So, I've

learned to pause. You know, you'll always see me wearing this hat and it says, "Huh?"

And I teach people, listen, before you believe in what you're feeling and thinking, just say, "Huh?" And it stands for haven't made up my mind.

And when everybody asked me what that means, I said, "I haven't made up my mind about anything." And I don't intend to because we live in a world that makes

us think that we got to make up our minds about everything and respond with rapid, you know, rapid response. So

that's where I'm at now is I allow myself to stop reacting even if I feel it. Yeah.

And start responding.

So this idea that you believe used to believe that seeing is believing. Yeah. And you don't believe that anymore. Yeah.

And and Okay. So, is there something just a belief doesn't mean it's true.

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Yeah. Well, no, no, that's that that that is true. So, is there a is there a truth that you've now discovered that

you feel like was hidden from you? Like it's the opposite side of that question.

Is there something you've stumbled upon and you found it to be true? Like, holy crap, how did I not know this all these years? Hm.

Um, God, I don't know how I'm I you if if anybody listens to my podcast, they know I go deep with some things and I

got to be careful not to go too deep on your podcast right now because it could take about six hours. Um, I would say one of one of the core tenants that I

live by, well, I'll share the two core tenants that I live by in the Makes sense ecosystem. And the first one is

that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works. And I've always had a sense about that, but I

didn't know how important it was. So that means that if you're out there doing doing and not getting anywhere, you need to stop doing and start hooing.

Who you are determines how well what you do works. And we forget that that's what Yeah. No more doodoo, more hoohoo. And

then the second one I got from uh Wayne Dyer and and this is all I talk about on my show, you know, this stuff. Wayne Dyer

said something, you know, the the amazing late great Wayne Dyer. He said,

"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." Now, if somebody hears that, they say,

"Yeah." They go, "Amen to that."

But do you know how to change the way you look at things?

Because when you learn how to shift your perspective or even entertain an alternative perspective and move the

thoughts and and concepts and core values that you have from permanent to temporary,

you're going to step into the space that Victor Frankle says is where the magic happens. In between the stimulus and your reaction

and in that space, you can start asking questions. about what you think,

not what everybody taught you to think.

So that's the most powerful thing that I've ever learned. And the entire nature of the interface response system, which

I believe is very unique, is I teach people how to do that rather than just know about it.

All right. Um I want everybody to get your book. So it's makesensebook.com and there's a picture of it. If you're

watching this on Spotify or YouTube, you can see him holding that copy of that book up. Makes sense glasses with no lenses. Yeah. Makes sense.

Makes sensebook.com. Yeah. The website's makesensebook.com.

Or you could just go to Amazon and just get the get the book.

Well, what what tell everybody about your show because you you you've got a a top ranked like what top five% in the world podcast. I mean, you've you've eclipsed me by a few percentage points.

So, uh what what's your show? Why should people go listen to it?

Um, well, I started my show as a self-healing project. I never knew it was going to grow into a a show. I just

was afraid of public speaking and I had anxiety about it and I decided to voluntarily voluntarily expose myself to it and it turns out that people started

to take to it. Um, my show is called Make Sense with Dr. JC and yeah, it's

it's a full-time job now. I mean, I've I've that's what I'm going to have to come to you and learn how to sell one day. That's going to be a tough one.

But, um, make sense with Dr. JC and you can't miss it. You know, it's ranked number five in the world right now in education and self-development. Um,

right close to Mel Robbins. I'm coming after you, Mel. And, uh, that's that's what I do full-time now. So, I've got the book, I've got that, and I've

offering people alternative perspectives that make them go hm.

All right, so I've got some rapid fire questions to finish out our time.

I'll give you the rapid fire answers. I promise.

Are you ready? All right. Dragon, where did the name come from? That's not a rapid fire question. Okay,

real real quick answer. Um, who I am today is what I would consider many many

moons ago as a mythical creature. So I was always fascinated with dragons as you know things that never really

existed. So they were mythical creatures. So that's the real reason I took the thing that I was afraid of the

most and I assimilated that it was a fire breathing dragon and rather than just befriending it, I embodied it. So when you hear me call myself the dragon,

that's my way of bringing everything I'm afraid of right inside of me. And um I realized that the dragon was actually there to help me, not hurt me.

All right, next question. Best advice you ever got that took years before you actually understood it?

Um, choose to be kind versus right.

All right, good. Third question. One place in the world that genuinely moved you and it changed something in you just by being there.

Well, I mean, I've been all over the world and you know, I would say if I it was a location, it would be uh the south

of France because that's where we have a home. But to be honest with you, and I'm not going to sound cheeky or cliche,

it's standing next to my wife. you know,

she is this this the greatest thing in the world to me. She's my best friend and uh and I really mean that. So,

there's no place I'd rather be than just hanging out with her. She's she's in the next room over there because we both work from home and uh she's the best place to go.

All right, that's awesome. One All right, last question. One person, alive or dead, that you'd want to spend a day watching work?

Oh, it really that would depend on where I'm at. But what comes right up is I

would like to spend a day or a week assisting Martin Luther King because

he was a guy that talked about an massive massive vision for change that he was so dedicated to he he didn't even care if he was going to be there for it.

So, I would just love to be able to assist somebody,

not close to the time he was assassinated, but maybe a little bit before it, you know, but yeah, that would be great. Dr. JC Dornick is my

guest today. I've uh enjoyed talking to him. We were good friends. We've known each other since I guess almost five years, four and a half, five years. And

it's an honor to have him twice on the show. Episode 65, if you want to go back and listen to that and uh come, you know, listen to this

one. is episode number 352. JC, thank you for being on the show, man. Tell everybody a little bit about what you want them to do to get in touch with you.

Yeah, just go get my book, you know. Um I would I would say don't get in touch

with me unless you feel called to um and unless you're looking and you're ready for change, you know, get my book.

There's a lot of great assets that come with that. Check out my podcast if you like the idea of reclaiming control of your thoughts and feelings on a regular basis, gaining a different perspective.

But reach out to me only if you feel called to.

Thanks JC. Appreciate you being here man. Appreciate you.

And thank you for listening to the show today or watching on YouTube or Spotify, wherever you're consuming this today.

Thank you. Thank you for doing that. It means a lot for me to be able to bring great guests like this to you. Um, like we said, JC's got a great message about

thinking about having clarity before you start taking action on things. So, so sometimes you might just need to slow down a little bit and get a little bit

of clarity because lack of clarity leads to confusion. Confusion leads to negative outcomes and negative outcomes leads to failure. So, don't go down that

road. Make sure you get clarity before you start off in the wrong direction. Go check out JC's book at makesensebook.com.

makes sensebook.com and uh let him know that you heard about that here with me, the real Jason Duncan on the route of all success. And tune in

again next week when I talk with yet another very cool and successful person like JC about his or her journey to success. Until then, as always, I am

your host, the real Jason Duncan and Jesus is King. Attention business owners.

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