The evil is inside us

Speaker 1 ? 00:00

850 self-proclaimed atheists in one single experience, one single day with a facilitator, a guided meditation with using psychedelics, using in in this case uh psilocybin mushrooms, one single experience. experience of those eight hundred and fifty atheists, two-thirds of them said, I am no longer an atheist.

Speaker 2 ? 00:22

I know there's seventy missions 7,000 children, 15 countries. So the man who funded and walked into these rescues says the hardest battle wasn't really any of them. So welcome back to the Real Jason Duncan podcast. I'm your host, Jason Duncan, and every guest I bring into this chair across the internet from me on the other side of the microphone, the other side of the camera. I bring here for one reason. I want to know what they used to believe. that turned out to be wrong. I I I want to know the lie that they fell for and the moment it all came apart because because the gold is the lie. The most comfortable beliefs you hold are the usually the ones that are keeping you trapped. And today's guest has spent the last decade unlearning something most of us have never even questioned. So most of us tell ourselves a story about evil. We say that the evil is out there. We say that it's uh it's the bad guys, it's the cartels, it's the traffickers, it's the people we see on the news. We tell ourselves that if we fight hard enough, We could keep it at arm's length. Well, today's guest has gone further into that fight than almost any civilian on earth. Over 70 undercover rescue missions across 15 countries, more than 7,000 children pulled out of the worst. rooms a human being can even be thawed to put in. And after all that, he's going to talk today about how how the fight that you think you're watching isn't really the fight that you're actually in. And that's what we're going to do today. So my guest, who is this guy? Well, his name is Paul Hutchinson. He's uh co-founded Bridge Investment Group. He's helped grow it to nearly $20 billion in assets under management before he walked away. To do this full time. And he's the primary investor and executive producer of the Sound of Freedom, a movie that came in about three years ago. Great movie. And the character Pablo in that film is based on him. And He personally played a key role in the rescue that that film depicts. So he's the founder of the Child Liberation Foundation and Liberating Humanity. And if you're watching this on video, You can see right behind him above him on the wall, the libertating liberating humanity sign. And through the foundation that he funds and the partnerships that he supports, over seven thousand kids. have been rescued and his prevention programs are now protecting more than 10,000 children every month. So Paul, welcome back to the show. You were officially here on 183. Now you're back for episode 359. Glad you're back.

Speaker 1 ? 02:59

Thank you, Jason. Super grateful to be back with you and your audience today.

Speaker 2 ? 03:04

All right. So the first question. So, Paul, the last time you were here, uh, like I said, was episode 183. And this show had a different name at the time. I'd done 354 episodes under the fur former name of the Root of All Success. Now it's just the real Jason Duncan podcast. And that that time you talked about what the sound of freedom cost So today what I want to do is I'm going to start somewhere I don't think you could have started then. So after 70 missions, 15 countries, 7,000 kids. When did you first realize that the real battle wasn't in any of those rooms?

Speaker 1 ? 03:40

It was um I I started to get a hint on my very first rescue mission. I I thought that traffickers were going to have earrings in their noses and tattoos down their necks. And the first trafficker I met was a business owner. He was he was clean-cut, well spoken. Latin version of what I looked and smelled like, you know? And then the second I met was a beautiful woman. And I thought, these guys aren't traffickers. And I I recognized over the next 10 years in leading undercover missions that the common thread with these guys who were doing the unthinkable, the common thread was was arrogance and greed and lust. An unhealed trauma, a separation from the the moral principles that they were at one point living their life in. And I I I honestly had to look in the mirror myself. Now I was I was You know, living a decent life and helping people. But I had to look in the mirror and say, Paul, how is how is arrogance and greed and lust, how is that showing up in your life? And I I recognize that most of the traffickers were trafficked themselves as children. They just hurt people, hurt other people. And most of the perpetrators, it didn't start out with them just deciding to go to Mexico and hurt a child. It started out with some hardcore addictions to alcohol or drug or pornography or some heavy unhealed trauma that they didn't choose to work through and they were allowing that to just tanker their souls and lead them down this dark road. And so So I and I I I and please the audience don't don't don't think that I'm a uh um a sympathizer in any way of somebody who hurts a child. I've literally put my life in in danger hundreds of times to ensure that innocence is preserved But I recognize that if we're really going to fix the problem, it wasn't about just throwing bad guys in jail. It was about going upstream a little bit. Upstream meaning five years back, ten years back, and saying, okay, what if we were to Take these guys who are super broken that haven't crossed that line yet. Now, once they've crossed that line, they're wasting my oxygen, right? It's it's time to go meet their maker. I'm I'm uh Hurting a child is however there was a one point in their life where they were just a broken man, addicted to some heavy things that were just Anger was just consuming them and they were picking on other whatever it was. And if we could take people at that point and love them through that healing process If we all as humanity can figure out how to liberate ourselves from our addictions, from our anxiety, our depression, our PTSD, our anger issues, our our Ways that we treat other people in the boardroom and in our home, we we liberate ourselves from those, then we're gonna save millions of children. So that's that's that was the that was the lie and the truth that I came to realize being in the darkest places of humanity.

Speaker 2 ? 06:48

Why why do you think we believe that it's out there and it's not in us?

Speaker 1 ? 06:53

It was so easy to to transfer the blame. I had a I had a friend who was um he was the head surgeon at the at the federal prison. uh where I um used to live. And uh I was talking to him and he said, you know Paul, he says it's super fascinating. He says, I'm getting to know these guys, I'm so one I'm up from fights and stuff. Almost every one of them believe That they were justified or it was somebody else's fault. It's so easy for them to say, yeah, you know, society made me this way, my dad made me this way, my, you know, whatever, and just looking outside themselves. So even the felons are blaming But you and I, you know, good men, good God-fearing men, with good we we have to take a careful assessment at how what I call the the the um the ripple effect of our words and our actions and how they're affecting others. For example, you know, I I I I go to work and I'm I'm out of integrity. I I had a bad day at home. I was fighting with my family maybe traffic was bad and I go to work and I I yell at one of the employees and just you know he brings me something the the spreadsheet wasn't right and I'm I get upset at him. To me it was nothing. But to him it was a big deal because of who I was right So then he goes home, he yells at his wife.

Speaker 2 ? 08:06

Okay, so uh audience members, just a brief technical introduction intervention here. We had a little bit of uh technical problem. So if you're watching this on video, you now see that Paul has a headset and a microphone on where before he didn't. And if you're listening to the audio, you don't see that, but you're definitely going to hear a difference in his audio. We just had a little bit of a technical glitch. But we're going to pick right up where we left off. So Paul, what what I wanted to ask you about your lie. Your lie is that evil isn't out there. It's actually within us. But my question to you was Why do you think that is? Why do we say that it's outside of us rather than inspecting and looking internally?

Speaker 1 ? 08:45

I think it's so difficult for us to take an honest look in the mirror as to who we are and how our actions affect other people. I I had a I had a friend who was a head surgeon at the the state prison that I was at Uh not that I was I lived in the neighborhood of Yeah, good clarification. We need to know that. But uh but he told me, he said, Paul, he says, you know what's fascinating? A lot of these these guys who are in in prison, he said they they they believe that the problem is outside of them. They believe that it was their father's fault, their mother's fault, their the society's fault, or what their wife's fault that she ended up, you know, whatever it was. And they're It's so easy for them to not take that responsibility. And it and you can see that with with you know we can all say, yeah, yeah, of course they're they're not taking responsibility. But all of us, you know, I I I think about back when I was building my my investment fund. You know, I remember a time where I was having a hard time at home with some relationships there and I I uh the traffic was bad on the way to work and I I yelled at my my employee. For something trivial, you know, he w he didn't do the spreadsheet right or something. And then then, you know, I don't know what all happened, but I can imagine 'cause I've seen this so many times. He goes home carrying that heavy energy and he yells at his wife. And his wife speaks crossly to their son when when he comes home from school and that son ends up kicking the dog. The truth is that that trauma, that transfer of energy of kicking of the dog, that came from me. That came from me not being in integrity. That came from me speaking out of alignment. Now imagine, imagine that that instead of um hit that scenario. Let's pretend like that employee was heavily abused when he was children. He was a child. Let's say that he was he had a million bad things that happened to him and a and things a lot of bad decisions that he made Let's say that he was now addicted to alcohol and pornography. These things, let's say I didn't know that. And now I speak out of integrity with him. I yell at him for something, and then he holds that energy. And he goes home and let's say that his wife just left him for his alcohol addiction and she didn't know that he had addictions online to some illegal images, et cetera. And let's say that this is the weekend that he gets his 12-year-old daughter and her cousin. Now Now that that tension transfer that came from me didn't just end up kicking a dog. That tension transfer that came from me hurt a child So I had to, as I started going through my own awakening, I recognized that, you know, even the guy who came to my party, who, you know, I had big huge parties and I was making all this money and I had to have NBA players there and half-dressed girls, even the guy who came to my party and, you know, slept with the cheerleader while he was there and his wife leaves him. Then the ripple effect of my actions a year later when his daughter ends up getting abused by the boyfriend or the son gets on drugs all because that guy was at my party, all because I was not living in alignment? I had to recognize that every word I say, every thought I think, every action I do has a ripple effect on everything around me, good or bad.

Speaker 2 ? 12:02

Well let's let's kind of pull back just a little bit into maybe a more specific moment because what you just shared, of course, is honest and transparent in a way that a lot of people don't consider. But I wanna ask about maybe a specific operation that you were on that changed you. I mean the one where y you saw a young girl in danger and then you immediately committed, like, I'm gonna make I'm gonna do something that other people might not do. So was there a specific mission, a specific moment in a room somewhere where the ground moved under you and you said, this is my moment. I'm going to do something about it.

Speaker 1 ? 12:38

Well, I I um I think I shared this two and a half years ago, but my first undercover mission Um at one point I'm sitting on a chair. I'm I'm I'm as tall as you and I are right now, sitting on a chair, and these traffickers had brought 54 children. And um one of the traffickers stands up and he says, Pablo, I have to bring you the gifts that I brought you. And he goes in the house where the children are. We were kind of negotiating outside at a table and he we could hear some of the children crying. And um he comes back out, he has four virgins, three little girls, one little boy. This little boy was 11, he was from Haiti. They gave him cocaine that morning because he was so scared. This one little girl standing up. She's no taller than I was sitting down. And Jason, I could, I was looking at her eye level. And all I could see was fear. She had her makeup had been smeared because she had been crying. She was so scared of meeting us. And I took her little hands. I said, Come on, Teyamas, what's your name? She didn't answer. I'm sure that's because her real name wasn't Princess, that the traffickers were calling her And I I I all all I wanted to do is say it's okay, you're gonna see your parents. You know, this is I'm not who you think I am. And I but I couldn't say that. It was in the middle of the operation, the traffickers were there, and I I just, I just said S the BN. It's okay. And I, at that moment, at that moment, I made a solid vow to myself, to God. to that child, that I would dedicate my life to eradicating that evil from the face of the earth. And at the time, I thought that evil was out there At that time, I thought that evil was was everybody who, you know, is is involved in this stuff. And then I recognize that anytime that we're participating in anything, even just pornography We're participating in that that energy that is leading to those things. And so all of us have to take responsibility to to clear ourselves and to make the world a better place. I I I had another operation where there was a um we were we were in Haiti, Port au Prince, Haiti. Now, today Port au Prince is the most dangerous city on the planet, by far. And uh I had done twelve undercover missions there. We wanted to chop the head off the dragon. I was so tired of trafficking just emerging from that region and And uh it was about 2 a. m. And uh there was a man with me named Andrew McCubbins, one of the most valiant undercover operators I have ever known. And um Andrew and I had worked our way up to what we call a level three trafficker and and um This it was a female trafficker. She'd been selling kids for almost 20 years and she sticks a key in the stores. It's about four and a half feet wide. about seven plus feet tall, red steel door, very dangerous area of town, opens this door and I see this this hallway, um, dimly lit, and multiple cell doors down the left hand side. And she takes Andy and I in and um opens up one of these cell doors. This room was five feet wide and six feet deep. Max had a had a steel wasn't even a bed, it was a steel plank on the wall that had a chain that was holding it to the wall. So you could fold it up. And um to the left was a concrete block And there was a little girl sitting on that block. She was taken when she was seven. Her parents were killed in the earthquake in Haiti. Nobody knew where she was. And what made me so mad is that every single man who walked through that door for years was there to harm her. Andy and I were the first ones to walk through that door that didn't have that intention. And and It things like that just infuriated me, thinking that humanity had get to the point where where this is okay. And I I just wanted to just take out guns. I told my Told my operators, listen, it's not our job to judge, it's God's job, but if we need to arrange that meeting, you know, I'm good with that. But over time I recognize that They're humanity as a whole needed to heal. That was the only way we're gonna save the kids.

Speaker 2 ? 17:25

So this idea like this humanity has has to heal It's certainly a different perspective because it it requires introspection that most people, especially in the Western culture aren't interested in doing. It's always someone else's fault. It's always someone I I was listening to I'm listening to uh a book called The The Fourth Turning. Are you familiar with this book? I haven't I haven't. Um like what you were just talking about is that how we p see ourselves. And if you go back to the nineteen fifties and you ask people Nine out of you know, I asked ten people, do you think you're an important person? Only two out of ten would say yes. And today it's like six or eight people would say it. And that just tells you our self our level of self-importance has has risen, which makes it even harder for people to do what you're saying, which is the evils in here. And I don't think men I I'm certainly women probably too, but cer men are the ones that perpetrate this more than anything else. I don't think men who look at porn, I don't think they think the way you're just explaining it. It's like you might not be trafficking a kid or a woman But you're participating in the industry that makes it necessary and possible. And I use the word necessary only in the context of the conversation. You can know what I mean. That is deep thinking. So what do you, Paul, what do you now know? That you wish someone had told you 20 years ago. And why do you think nobody told you then?

Speaker 1 ? 19:04

I'm in a um My my great awakening for me, and we can talk later about how this happened, but I felt for a large portion of my life that love was transactional and especially the the the love of God where I had to I I I for a long time I felt like I wasn't worthy of God's love. Even though I I wasn't doing anything illegal, I was helping kids, but you know, there there was a there was a certain um mindset that I had learned early on that um that created a lot of guilt and shame and self-loathing and that kind of stuff actually fed the addictions. You know, when somebody's addicted to pornography and they they go through this hatred, self-hatred and God doesn't love me and you know, my wife could never love me, then they they hide it and they hide it and it then that's what generates the the deeper addictions. If they can say join a men's group and say, hey, you know, this is what I'm dealing with I need help. And that that self-honesty and that openness is something in recognizing that you can still be loved through your challenges as you overcome them. And that was something that that was that that I held on to for a long, long time.

Speaker 2 ? 20:39

Well, in the movie, uh, The Sound of Freedom Um the the character in their Pablo is you, right? So you were in that room, in those rooms uh that the movie is dramatizing. What what was it like to watch that on screen? And did it awaken for you any new ideas or concepts that you hadn't thought of? I mean, what did the film get right? What did it leave out? Kind of give us a little insight into that.

Speaker 1 ? 21:05

Well the you know, we we took eight different rescue missions, put them all together into one storyline and about twenty different operators and put them all with one or two actors, because you know, we didn't have you know, budget for twenty A-list actors for the twenty A-list operators that we had. Um the thing that was missing with the film that I I tried to to ensure was super deep in the book Sound of Freedom. So the book is available on Amazon and it it gives parents tools they need. You know, the sound of freedom, people will leave the movie and they'll say, Oh, I want to do something. And they're mad. I want to go to Mexico. I'm gonna rescue kids. So the worst thing you can do is go to Mexico and rescue kids. You're probably gonna get shot. The best thing you can do is go home and hug your children. Guys are like, oh, how how's hugging my kids going to stop trafficking? Well, the the majority of children that are taken, that are moved to another place, that are They they don't come from a healthy home. They're they're runaways. They come from a broken foster care program or a broken home. But in addition to that, the thing that wasn't touched on in the movie is that the most dangerous thing for your children is not somebody standing behind a black alley in in downtown. The most dangerous thing for your children is in their backpack, is in their back pocket. It's their cell phone and the opportunity for predators around the world to have access to them virtually. And uh parents need to have a healthy relationship with their kids where their 12-year-old boy can come and say, Hey dad, I kind of screwed up. I was on this gaming platform, I was texting this uh what I thought was a girl, twelve year old girl, and we were sending pictures back and forth and then she wanted videos and I sent that and now she says I have to send money or she's gonna send all these pictures here or she wants me to meet at a certain place. It's probably not a twelve year old girl. It's a forty five year old dude. that's been targeting your son. And uh and it's also important to know that as parents The over ninety percent of the child victims of sexual abuse, it's familial It's a it's a family member. It's somebody the family knows. It's so important that you have a relationship with your kids where they can come to you and say, Hey Dad, I I I I don't I don't like it when you tell me to hug Uncle Harry. You know, he's he's he touches me weird or, you know, it says we should have secrets. Or hey, I I don't we don't like this babysitter. She's showing us pornography, says that we should have secrets outside of you Or, you know, the list goes on. And so having those healthy relationships with your kids is so important. in in preventing trafficking from happening. But then beyond that, the best thing that we can do is take a look at society as a whole and say, okay. Just pulling these guys and putting them in prison isn't fixing it. Why? Because there's a demand. How do we fix that demand? We need to liberate humanity. We need to heal humanity from all of the toxic, the generational trauma, our addictions of all sorts. These are things that we need to heal humanity. We do that, we save millions of children

Speaker 2 ? 24:17

All right, I'm gonna ask you the next question, but before I give you the opportunity to answer it, I've got a couple things I need to say to the audience. But what I what I want to ask you is what is something that you used to believe That you don't believe anymore. So we're going to get to that in just a minute. But before we let Paul answer that question, I want to ask you to do me a favor. Chances are, as you're listening to this episode. someone came to mind while you were listening today. And what I would like you to do is just do the simple act of forward this episode to them. You know, because the right idea at the right time can spark a breakthrough. And you might be the one who delivers that. So just hit the share button on whatever platform you're listening and send it to that person that came to mind Now I want to talk about the sponsor for today's episode.

Speaker 3 ? 25:04

Let's take a quick break to thank our amazing sponsors for making this podcast possible.

Speaker 2 ? 25:12

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Speaker 3 ? 26:18

Thanks for listening to our sponsors. Now back to the show.

Speaker 2 ? 26:23

Paul. So what did you used to believe that you don't believe anymore?

Speaker 1 ? 26:29

Okay, I'm gonna take you down a uh interesting road. Um Ten years ago, I um I got a call from two of my operators. These were guys who had seen the darkest of the dark with me. And uh we were losing undercover operators. I had Green Berets with 300 missions in Afghanistan who um already had PTSD. And one undercover mission with us, seeing a menu with faces and have and prices of things that that they could pay for, it just threw them over the top. They just couldn't deal with the PTSD of how dark things were. And um I had had a company in my early 20s that helped people overcome anxiety, depression, PTSD addictions, childhood trauma using cognitive restructuring type stuff. And um we were trying, we were looking at some methods to help some of our operators. And I I got a call from two of my guys saying, Paul, do you trust us? I said, yeah, I trust you literally with my life. I'm I'm in I'm in charge when we're undercover, I'm in charge of talking. They're in charge of making sure I don't die. They said, you you need to come to this healing retreat. And and my exact words were, I don't need to heel. I'm Paul F. and Hutchinson. Everybody wants to be me. And he said, no, you you're on your second marriage headed for a divorce. Your kids don't talk to you. You think that happiness is going to come from one more car, one more party, one more helicopter, even one more rescue mission. And you're empty inside. And uh I said, okay, well tell me more about this. And they they said we've we've we've started working with some doctors and some scientists who are working on the proper protocol. for the use of psychedelics when it comes to anxiety, depression, PTSD addictions. Now, this is relevant now because when this episode comes up, literally about a month before that, in April of this year, um President Trump and uh Joe Rogan in the White House. Joe was there with uh with RFK and some others, and they signed a bill to fast track the studies of the FDC of the F the FDA and the um all the all the powers that be to to move things forward, to legalize these things. So the lie that I was told for 20 years, for 50 years. was that because these were Schedule I drugs, they were dangerous. They were bad, like like cocaine or whatever. The truth is Psilocybin is safer than table sugar, and I'd encourage people to do their own research. There's never been a case of addiction, not one ever. There's never been a case of overdose, not one ever. And and when used improperly, you can create some problems. And we'll talk about that in a second. Used properly, you can create 10 and 20 years worth of therapy in one or two days. In fact, in when they were signing the bill, they were stating some statistics that with our veterans who were losing f 20 to 30 of them a day to suicide. We've lost more veterans to suicide than we did in the last number of wars combined. And and 80% of the people who go through one single experience, facilitated, managed correctly, 80% of them, they're able to completely release their their their challenges, their get off of their drugs and their PTSD, et cetera. So these are huge. And my personal experience was the most transformational experience of my life, even more than the than the undercover missions, in helping me take an honest look in the mirror and heal the things that I needed to heal.

Speaker 2 ? 30:22

And so you're talking about psilocybin, which is from mushrooms, right? And this is the what the what they call the Uh psych uh psychod it's psychotro what is it called? There's something there's a word around that, right?

Speaker 1 ? 30:35

Yeah, yeah. Well it it turns it into psilocyon. There's psych there's a it's a psychedelic type of uh experience, you know, as a whole. And I'm very, very familiar with the proper use of everything from ketamine to psilocybin mushrooms to ayahuasca to iaboga, which they they talked about a lot in the signing the bill and which ones are used for different things and um and how how the wrong way to use them can really negatively affect somebody's life. And so I'm I I became a master facilitator about eight years ago and have now hosted and facilitated almost a hundred guided meditation, very spiritually aligned plant medicine healing retreat activities

Speaker 2 ? 31:24

And you're doing this, if I'm if I'm if I remember correctly, you're doing this as a follower of Christ.

Speaker 1 ? 31:31

In every way. Well in fact, let me tell you that how that So this was an interesting story. I I my very first experience was the most beautiful, horrific experience of my life. Horrific because The the facilitator with the music and the medicine, it showed me pure empathy. This is where I felt in every cell of my being the pain that my children felt when I cheated on their mom or the the the ripple effect of my actions. It was as if I was them. God just showed me, open my heart and let me walk with them a w mile on every in their shoes. It was just beautiful. And then I I came out of that room and the facilitator was there and I had I I had up on my my mantle, I had three Greek gods. They were um beautiful bronze statues. I had Poseidon and Zeus, and then I had had Atlas. Atlas was was uh I'll show you right here. So I had this Atlas that was there. They was holding the world on his shoulders. And uh and I said to the facilitator, I said, you know, I feel a lot like Atlas. She said, Oh really? Why? And and she knew my intention of really what I wanted to release. She I said, Well, I have I've got 4,000 employees in my company and I make all these billions and I and I feels like I have the world on my shoulders, but look how strong God made me. with my stomach mother. She kind of is smiling at my ego self for a second. And then she said, she said, Paul, she said, I honor the fact that you are seeing some of those traits in those statues, but you know as well as I do that those were mythological gods. She said, what about your relationship with him? And she she points at this statue of Christ that I had on my mantle. And my exact words were, oh, I don't qualify for a relationship with him And she said, Well, why not? I said, Well, when I left the church of my youth ten years ago, my bishop told me until I was re-baptized into that church, I wouldn't have the Spirit of God with me I I was I was raised Mormon LDS and I you know and I I had I had I I I considered myself a strong Christian, but I wasn't I wasn't in that space. And and so I says he he told me I wouldn't have the spirit of God with me. And she said, Do you really think that that's true? I said, well, no, I I try to do good. I give a lot of money to charity. I do these missions to help kids. I think I'm doing good. She said, well, why don't you work on that relationship for a minute? And so here I've I've got six grams of mushrooms. I can barely walk, right? And I'm trying to take this statue down. And she she takes the statue and she she sets it in my lap, sitting on this bean bag. And Jason, I had the most beautiful, deep, loving, reconnecting relationship with Christ that I had ever had in my entire life Now, the science behind it is this. When we're little children, our brain is in a state of neuroplasticity. And if you imagine a gold bar, this gold bar is our subconscious mind. And this gold bar runs 95% of our life. The problem is at a gold bar, it's hard. It's it's it it it takes twenty-one days to trizzle. chisel the side of it to to create a new habit, right? But when we're little kids, it's in flow state, it's in liquid state. Neuroplasticity is what they called it. We're very impressionable. You can Learn three or four languages at the same time that you can learn how to ride your bike and everything else. Well, the the Psychedelic experience using something like psilocybin or ayahuasca, etc. , those are, it creates a temporary state of neuroplasticity. Where you're very impressionable, your heart is very open, you're very sensitive to the feelings of others and and your actions with them. And in how I describe it, it It thins the veil. Okay. There's a veil of forgetfulness. When we're born, we don't remember. We don't remember being brothers. We don't remember being with Christ. We don't remember anything. We come, we have to rely upon the five senses to see things. And there are certain things that we can do to start thinning that veil. Prayer, church, for some people, meditation or breath work. in a very real sense, the the experience with some of these what I call sacred Gifts from God, the experience thins that veil. In fact, there's a book called The Immortality Key that goes back and scientifically proves that the early Christian church used psilocybin in their sacrament, not so that they could hallucinate and see things that weren't there, but because they believed it was a way of thinning that that veil between the physical and the spiritual world. And so for me, I felt I wasn't just holding a statue. I was having a deep, loving conversation. that that I should have had a long time before. And because of that, I was able to, it changed my life so much, I became a facilitator and now we we run Liberating Humanity runs healing retreats as part of all of our charity stuff that we do as well. Interesting.

Speaker 2 ? 36:57

Well, I it's something that I've never ever looked into. I mean, I grew up believing And uh that the all drugs including mushrooms were just off limits as a follower of Christ. And and as a result of that, I've never attempted any of them. That drugs I didn't even start drinking alcohol until I was in my thirties Never tried anything, never done anything. So this, what you're telling me, is new information that I'm gonna have to process and decide whether or not it's something I want to pursue.

Speaker 1 ? 37:24

But it's it is interesting. Well, here's what's fascinating. You know, growing up LDS, I it was not just, hey, no drugs. In the Mormon culture It's against the rules to drink coffee, to drink alcohol, tea, tobacco, I mean any of those things are all against the rules. So You can tell from from where I was coming from. I'm like, oh, wait a minute. You know, I'll I'll be disowned for life, right? And it was funny because years later, when I had transformed everything, and my parents were, we had a conversation. They're like, Paul, what happened? Wow, I've just seen this light in you, this love in you, this connection. And I I decided, okay, I'm gonna tell them. And it was literally three years after my experience. And I I told my mom, I said, Mom, after I told her about this whole thing, I said, Mom, I I have felt closer to God since I since I went through that experience than I've ever felt my whole life And her exact words were, you only feel close to God when you're doing drugs. I said, You miss the whole point. You missed the whole point. And so I would encourage people to just look into it with an open mind and and under here's an interesting statistic for for Christians. Okay. John Hopkins University, one of their studies on the use of psychedelics, one of them had 850 self-proclaimed atheists. Atheists. Not not agnostics, I don't know if there's a God. These are atheists. There is no God, right? 850 self-proclaimed atheists. in one single experience, one single day with a facilitator, a guided meditation with using psychedelics, using in in this case psilocybin mushrooms one single experience of those 850 atheists, two-thirds of them said, I am no longer an atheist. I know there's a God. Now, just take that however you want to do it. But that that one experience changed two-thirds of the atheist believing in God. So, you know, for me Things like that and my own experience make it so that no, this is exactly the opposite. There there are things that create addictions, that create low energy, you know, within ourselves and a separation from God. And there are things that do the opposite. that that thin that veil that open up our minds and our hearts and that's what my experience was. So yeah, we have a very um We have we have uh we have a Christ statue at every single one of our ceremonies so that people can connect with that beautiful energy.

Speaker 2 ? 39:55

Well those are uh some different lies and truths that uh we weren't planning on getting into today, but uh maybe maybe we We have a whole conversation just about that because I think that's uh I don't know about that. That's not something that is in my world. Uh I don't I don't understand it, but Uh you you have convinced me to at least take a look into what that means. So thank you for doing that. Now I do have one final scripted question for today before we finish the show, but before I ask that final question I know that there's people listening today that want to get in touch with you. They want to figure out how to connect, uh, maybe to just know a little bit more about your story, or maybe they want to get involved in some of the work that you're doing with liberating humanity. So what is, Paul, what's the best way for people to reach out?

Speaker 1 ? 40:39

Speaker 2 ? 41:36

And we'll have all of this in the show notes. So if you're listening on Spotify, uh Apple Podcasts or watching this on YouTube, this will all be in the show notes. All right, Paul, final question for our uh listeners today What do you know now that you wish the world knew?

Speaker 1 ? 41:57

Um That God is not in a faraway galaxy, that we are not separate. That when uh when Christ said, I and the Father are one and you shall be one and one with us, that that unity, that oneness is more real than we can imagine. That we are not separate from our brother, we're not separate from each other, and we're not separate from God.

Speaker 2 ? 42:31

Thanks, Paul, for being on the show again today. Thank you, Jason. Well that's a wrap on today's episode. If you saw a bar on your cage that you hadn't noticed before, send this episode to someone who needs to see theirs. The gold is the lie. And as always, I am your host, the real Jason Duncan, and Jesus is King. I'll see you next time.

Speaker 4 ? 42:53