Why Profit Should Come Before People

I would say no matter who you are, if you're a business owner or you're not, regardless of what you're doing in life, whether it's personal, professional, or otherwise, protect your attention.

There's so many things that waste your time and energy and effort.

People don't protect their attention.

I would advise and share that it's important to remember that we shouldn't become masters of the chaos.

You know, the most repeated formula in business says that you build a company in this order, people first, then product, then process and profit will come last.

Well, my guest today hired 4,800 people living by that formula.

And today he builds in the exact reverse order and people come last.

If you want to know what that means, stay tuned.

Welcome to The Real Jason Duncan Podcast.

I'm your host, The Real Jason Duncan.

And every guest on this show is here for one reason.

They used to believe something that turned out to be wrong.

Now, some of the guests figured it out on their own.

Some had to get knocked on their butts first.

But either way, by the time they sit in this chair across from me, they know the difference between what's real and what isn't.

And the lies that do the most damage are the ones that, you know, they look like wisdom.

And they're the ones that people repeat often, and they're the ones you're so sure about, you don't even question them.

You don't even think about questions.

And a lie like that builds a cage around you.

And here's why you stay in those cages, because that cage looks like gold.

It looks like the smart play.

It looks like the good life, the strong business, the right way to do things.

And nobody's going to walk away from something that looks like treasure.

So that's what this show is about.

The gold

is the lie.

Every conversation here is about finding the cage, seeing that the gold was never real and then walking out.

So the lie that my guest believes today is printed on the wall of half of the companies in America.

People first, hire great people, take care of them and product and process and profit will follow.

It's in the business books.

It's in keynote speeches and saying that kind of thing out loud actually makes you sound like the leader that everybody wants to work for.

That's what makes this lie the golden cage.

Questioning it doesn't

It just feels wrong to question that.

It feels heartless.

I have to admit, even when I was preparing to say this, and my producers here, my assistant in the background, she's hearing this for the first time, not knowing where we're heading with this.

I'm even thinking, what is she gonna think about what we're talking about?

Well, my guest today didn't question this from the sideline.

He actually built a company whose entire product was people, thousands of them.

And somewhere inside that, he came to a conclusion that almost nobody in business will say into a microphone.

The order is backwards.

Profit comes first, people come last.

And he'll tell you why that's not cruelty.

And that's where we're going to go today.

So my guest is Neil Amrine.

And in 2008, he founded All About Care, which is a luxury non-medical home healthcare company that employed 4,800 caregivers and delivered over a million hours of care across two states.

Well, in 2018, he founded a company called MyGoat.

It's a Nashville software company that he's described as like Roomba meets Netflix for commercial lawn mowing.

And now it's installed across four states and it's thriving and of all places, the cemetery industry.

Well, before any of that, he spent a decade in revenue roles at EMC, selling to everyone from startups to Fortune 100.

And if his voice sounds familiar, it should.

He was one of the very first guests in this show's history all the way back to episode four.

So welcome back to the show.

Welcome, Neil.

Good to see you, buddy.

You too, Mr.

Duncan.

A pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's hard to believe that it was that long ago that we sat at the Standard Club filming this live and in person smoking cigars.

And today now, five and a half years later, you're episode number 389, you were episode number four.

We're not sitting in the same room, but we're in the same area.

You're about 30, 45 minutes away from me.

So before we get rolling,

I told the people, as you heard me say at the beginning, yeah, look, if you're watching this on video, this is a picture of Neil and me.

This is the before.

This is a picture of the two of us from that show five and a half years ago.

We both have left a little of ourselves into the world.

We look a little better.

We've aged like fine wine.

A little more gray.

And that too.

I wasn't going to point that out.

Thank you for reminding me.

I told the people in the opening that you came here to take a swing at something sacred, this people first gospel and the classic build order of people, product, process and profit.

And you ran that play with 4,800 employees and now you've completely flipped it upside down.

So I want to start right there.

I want you to say the old order and the new order in your own words and tell me where this people first belief came from for you in the first place.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it.

Yeah, the four P's as I like to refer to, and I think people know, of course, that, you know, the idea of having people having a product building processes, and then the profit will come as what I've always subscribed to.

And I think what most people subscribe to when they're building, especially when they're building service oriented businesses, because it's really about the culture and human beings and

you know, kind of your your value system.

There's another P in there that's I kind of been kind of tossing around in the last year or two, and that is perspective and and you know how you develop product and people's perspective of that product.

But yes, essentially that is the common order of the four Ps, the people, product, process, and then profit.

And I just

choose to reverse that.

Well, so the last time we talked, which like I said on the show was like five and a half years ago on the show, we've talked more than that because we're friends, we hang out frequently.

But when we talked in that show, we talked about what separates entrepreneurs from wantrepreneurs.

And you said it was ideas versus execution.

So you didn't walk in here today preaching

profit first necessarily, I don't think.

So somewhere in these five and a half years between that conversation and this one, something changed in your mind.

So walk me back to the first moment that you suspected that people, the first order, usually was actually working against you and not the day you had the answer.

I'm talking about the day you first had the doubt.

Well, maybe I've got this backwards.

First time I thought about it that way, I think

Having built a business centered around people, and having my experience in the hospitality industry and other service oriented businesses, it was centered on, they would buy that, that your people would be the product.

And I think it almost ties into my philosophy of entrepreneur versus entrepreneur.

How do you actually monetize your idea?

And I think the essence of being a entrepreneur versus entrepreneur, there are a lot of entrepreneurs

who have great ideas and it shouldn't be dismissed, but they have trouble monetizing it.

And so that's why the profit hits the top line for me as far as the first P in the order.

Because if you can't monetize your idea, then it's just a hobby.

And that means you're spending more money than you're making.

So as an entrepreneur versus a entrepreneur, it's monetizing and it may switch.

know, what you're monetizing in the software subscription world, or you're selling a product, or you have a consulting company that's moving into a product based solution, which I've kind of had some experience in all of those areas.

So yeah, coming up with the profit, how do you make money?

What's, what's the buying process?

What's the, what's the model?

And, and then the process, which, which is interesting is I kind of walk through from

from, hey, here's an idea.

And it doesn't have to be a big idea.

It could be just an improvement on something.

But what I think of is I think of the process because I think if you don't build processes or systems, you become the system.

Yeah, that's true.

I see that in entrepreneurs all the time in the work that I do.

So but what was it, though?

I mean, are you saying because I want to make sure that I'm not getting this wrong because I think the audience might also get it wrong.

Are you saying I don't care about people?

I only care about profit.

No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.

All right.

No, no.

People are going to be a part of the fact, you know, with with the whole AI, you know, craze that's going on, everybody's worried about

their job.

And a lot of people are saying, I'm worried about my job, job replacement and so forth.

I think it's just an accelerator.

It's a tool that allows people to become more productive and improve processes.

It actually makes them smarter and gets to more profits.

So you're actually handing, you know, artificial intelligence as it were, depending on your business, but you're handing them an opportunity or they're being empowered

to move everything back up the chain of the Ps, right?

So you have that people with an AI tool that ends up enhancing the product that they have or that they're able to deliver, which is a lot of times their feature and their value to the business is being focused on what's important to them and what's important to the business that a human can do, and then everything else gets automated, which moves you into the process

And then again, back to the top is how does this affect the profit?

So starting with the profit in mind with any business and the profit could be something that's making more money, right?

Is the total cost of ownership and the return on investment.

It's either you spend money to make money or you spend money to save money.

It's in really nothing else in between.

So when I think about anybody being an entrepreneur or any idea,

How do you monetize it?

I don't think it's an accidental and maybe there are some people who accidentally fall into a profitable business, but taking a tool or a technology or a service and starting with monetizing it first and then formulating the process, building the systems, you'll eventually produce a product.

Your product might be different.

I mean, the product that I had with the home care business,

certainly started as a product that was delivered in white glove type services.

And what I realized in the market is that folks didn't really know or want necessarily white glove services for their loved ones.

They just wanted their loved ones to be content and happy, more like a companion.

And so even though we were delivering a high level of service because that's what we did and we built those processes to provide,

That's not what the market really demanded.

So our product changed.

It moved dramatically.

And as a result, when we filled that and we realized, hey, this is the product we're not delivering, the people changed the type of people we had hired.

And as you know, Jason, we subscribe heavily to the culture index, which is this is not an advertisement for them, but I am a big believer in analytics over instincts.

And so when you can identify people,

and their talents and their ability to contribute in their history, work history and capabilities.

It's not just on their CV or their resume.

It's really how are they motivated?

How are they going to motivate others?

What's the best way to communicate with them?

How do they communicate with other people?

And those are analytical tools, not, hey, I like Jason because he's good looking.

Well, I appreciate that.

Well, so let me clarify, 'cause I still think I'm a little lost in the explanation of this flipping of people to the bottom of the chain and the profit to the top of the chain.

And here's why, and I think a lot of people are probably gonna agree with me.

You look at corporate, which you and I aren't corporate, we have companies, we're small business owners, it's very different than the way a corporate, because a corporation by definition is designed to put profit above everything else, that's profit for their shareholders, that's it.

Well, if that's what a corporation does and we see the things that they do in pursuit of that, which sometimes harms people, not just neglects them but harms them.

That's what this kind of sounds like.

It sounds like, well, I'm going to put profit first to hell with people, to hell with whatever happens.

And I asked you that in a different wording in a minute ago, and you said, no, that's not what you mean.

But I'm still unclear as to how this inversion has happened, because I know that all of us have doubts at 2 a.m.

about our company and how we're running it and what do we need to do pivot?

But I think changing

Changing this from people first to people last didn't happen because it was a doubt.

There was some sort of conviction that caused you to flip it.

So tell me a little bit more about that.

Yeah, I would argue as a capitalist, as a libertarian, I would argue that it's better and safer for people in a corporate infrastructure to have the vision and the mission of the company and those leading the company to be focused on profit.

because it protects everybody who's in the business.

So it's actually more of a kind of a gatekeeper because if your company or your visionaries or your CEO or your shareholders are not focused on profit, then everybody else kind of suffers.

And so if we, you know, as a small business owner, if you're a solopreneur or you've got a business that's doing 5 million, 15 million, 50 million or 100 million, you know,

Most folks that I know who are building businesses are actually looking to grow, not shrink.

And when they grow, that means they're bringing on more people.

And the only way they can bring more people on is by having a certain profit point where they say, we're now this much more profitable and we need another person or another two people.

So it's an accelerator, it's a catalyst for ensuring, really ensuring job security.

And the talent or the leadership skills necessary for somebody to keep everybody focused on the prize, which is this is what we're doing as a company and what we do is a profitable direction, I would argue is a safer way of going.

Now, most people, when they joined corporations, I was certainly a part of a large Fortune 500 company for a long period of time and a number of other ones.

You know, you realize sometimes if you're an entrepreneur later on in life, you learn some things about those cultures and then you say, well, I can do this or I'm just a cog in the wheel or, you know, I've got some ideas I should go out there and explore, you know, or you're a bit more entrepreneurial than I am or you don't do that at all.

You just come up with ideas and you build businesses or maybe you buy businesses and you make them more profitable, again, more profitable, not more people.

you know, people buy a business so that they can turn a higher profit or greater profit.

It could be top line, but most of the time what matters is, you know, is the bottom line.

You know, you run a company now called My Goat.

It's autonomous software for autonomous robots that mow grass in, you know, airports and cemeteries, et cetera.

Now, you said that the idea for My Goat came from watching an autonomous mowers in a video, and at that point you had spent 10 years

at a company that was made entirely of people.

And so when you saw that video, what did that machine prove to you that in that moment that, man, 4,800 employees couldn't do what I think I could do with this concept of this machine?

Yeah, it's a tool.

I mean, I think technology is a tool.

Somebody asked me recently about whether I'd rather go back 200 years ago and just deal with the technology we have then versus like what we have now.

It's moving so fast that, you know, robots are, it's just a tool to make life easier and better and people more productive and have them be safer.

You know, riding on a zero turn mower, cutting grass is not an easy job, especially in July in Middle Tennessee when it's, you know, heat index is 104 and it's not safe, right?

I mean, but if you're managing pizza boxes with wheels on them in your F-150 on a smartphone,

and you can five or six or 10x your labor productivity, it's just smarter.

It's, you know, there's a clearer way of thinking.

I think that there's the hard work versus like the mentality of clear thinking.

And I think a lot of people get mixed up in, you know, hard work means good work.

Sometimes, you know, creating systems and processes that allow you to have clear thinking

moves the ball forward, right back to the systems again.

So yeah, for my business, in fact, we're at the next level where my goat has moved to about 65 or 70%, maybe even argued 75%, a headless company.

So we actually have human beings who have digital twins.

And we talked a little bit about this in the past, but and their digital AI agent bots.

And the focus is it's just like it's like the buddy system, you know, it's you have a human being leading

the agentic AI bot and the human being takes the most important, most productive three or four responsibilities.

And then the other 14 administrative things, the agents, you know, take care of.

But it's the human training the agent.

So again, I just think of it as technology and how do you apply the technology?

Well, I want to get into the cost of a 4,800 person company versus a headless company where 75% of it is operated by non-humans.

You know, it's operated by AI.

I'm going to get to that in a minute, but first we're going to take a quick break and talk about our sponsors and we'll talk specifically to our listeners for a minute.

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Now, back to the show.

All right, so Neil, I want to stay in the years before you flipped to this new process, this new idea of the four P's being upside down, because you didn't just dabble in people first.

You're all about care company wasn't a company with employees, it was a company of employees.

I mean, the care that was delivered by human beings by the hour, a million hours of it, if the people first order

If that people first order has a price tag, you probably paid more of it than almost anyone I've ever had on this show.

So what I wanted you to do is think about adding up the people first decade for me, the recruiting, the turnover, the no-shows, the margin you gave away just to keep the machine staff.

What did believing that people come first actually cost you when you finally did the math?

I don't know if there's an exact number.

I mean, I probably I could tell you it on average for a standard caregiver that was hired in a part time status to provide care at the level we wanted to make sure was provided.

So in a very specific 11 step hiring process, but generally it was about 90 hours of care that they were providing before we broke even on the 11 step hiring process.

That's a big investment.

Even if you took a, well, today's rate wages, you know, 15 to $18 an hour, but back then it was, you know, half of that, you know, nine to $11 an hour.

You kind of multiply that out.

There's a lot and a big risk, you know, and that's just for one person.

So, you know, I spent a lot of time in the last 18 years or so kind of focused on the analytics versus the instincts.

hiring people, certain people are better in certain roles than others.

And that is super, super helpful.

And there's all kinds of analytics tools that are out there, but how do you apply them today?

So yeah, staffing is difficult.

And I think people are realizing that now, especially with AI, not to, as you can tell, I'm a pretty big fan, it's a tool again.

that actually I feel like empowers people.

So the odd thing about this whole conversation as we're going through it, I just finished David Goggins book last night.

Can't hurt me.

And I don't know if you've read it or not.

I haven't.

You probably know of him.

You know, his is a guy that in a Navy SEAL, you know, was reading at a third grade level in 11th grade, you know, only guy I think in the SEAL program whoever went through BUDS training and made it through Hell Week, not once but twice.

He had to go three times in order to become a SEAL, but just never gave up, had that will all the time, was able to push himself, the 40% rule.

And I'm getting through that book and I'm thinking to myself as I'm preparing today, it's like hard work is one of the things that it's a go-to thing.

It's what you have to, you've got to persevere.

And this guy is the epitome of it.

This guy holds the world record for pull-ups with 4,030 pull-ups in 17 hours.

I mean, and it took him three attempts to get there, you know, where he just amazing, right?

Grit.

But at the end of the day, it's about clear thinking, right?

It's, do you have the ability to, especially if you're a business owner or you're an entrepreneur, to clear the noise and look for the signals.

So let's put the whole thing on the table.

You know, the old order, the older order of the peas,

made you sound like a great leader, but it cost you a lot for a decade.

Because if you look at the turnover and the no-show rate and the fact that they had to give care for 90 hours, which is two weeks plus two more days almost before you even broke even.

So if they didn't show up and you had to turn over, the cost was tremendous.

So if you turn, you look at that cost, the new order,

But the new order sounds cold the first time you hear it.

It does.

And you're betting two companies today.

You got my goat and you got your other company that we haven't talked about yet.

But I want you to own it completely, piece by piece.

Give me the new order, one word at a time.

Profit, process, product, people.

Tell me why each one sits where it sits.

And then let's defend the part that offends everybody because people first is painted on their office wall right now and they're going, wait a minute, what the hell are they talking about?

This couldn't be true.

So let's go to profit.

Why is profit first?

Well, I think you have to ask yourself as a business owner, are you in business to make money?

Are you not in business to make money?

Agreed.

Yeah.

Well, and I want to tell you there, if we just break this down and look at what we just said there, I don't know that there's a single

person who's an entrepreneur business owner would say they can argue with that.

Profit has to be first.

The whole point of owning a business is to make profit so that you have the resources to live the lifestyle that you want to live.

That's the whole point.

Okay, so profit, okay, I think I can get on board.

Profit is the first and most important thing.

Second, you got process.

Process.

Yeah.

I mean, like I said, build the systems instead of being the system.

Every operator, every owner operator starts with, they're playing every instrument in the

in the band.

They got the music, they got the drums, they're doing all that stuff.

So you can't do all of that.

Now you can do a lot more of that now with AI.

I think in April there was two guys that started a company and they built a whole $1 billion company in the last 24 months or less with agents, just two people, two human beings.

They build out processes.

In their case, they build out an agentic core with a bunch of agents and so forth.

But

You know, what's the process to make the profit?

And the profit is predicated on, let's just say for robots, for me, concept of disrupting vegetation management through automation and robotics is predicated on one thing, which is the clock.

You know, the traditional cutting grass has been in the daytime when it's not raining.

with a big machine going as fast as fast as you can.

And my process of delivering and introducing cutting grass with autonomous robotic mowers, which by the way, there are no autonomous robotic mowers, they all require a human being to be involved.

They're semi autonomous.

And what we do is obviously optimize them.

But you're looking at 168 hours a week to cut grass.

So the process to cut grass

That's the end goal.

The end goal is to have robots that in my case, or in my goat's case, we're optimizing them and maximizing their potential.

All right.

So you got profit first, then you got to have a process that doesn't require you to be part of it.

That's a whole exit without exiting methodology, which my listeners know that I teach.

Now you got product wise product there.

What does that mean?

Why does it come third?

The product is because it evolves.

Jason and what I mean when it evolves and I'll just kind of go back to my my business with all about care.

You know, our first product was white glove.

service and having spent some time in the hotel industry, you know, I know what it's like to deliver five star, five diamond type service.

And that sounds like a great product, but it's not for everyone.

In fact, you know, it's probably only 2% of the market that understands that or wants to pay for that or even recognize it.

You know, they always say, you know, I've heard you can you sell to the

to the masses and you live with the classes, but you sell to the classes, you live with the masses.

And so the product that we were delivering five or six years into the home care space was centered around what the customer really wanted, not what we really thought the market needed.

So the market actually defined the product.

It defined the opportunity.

Even within MyGoat, when we started, it was residential customers and was kind of the Uber, if you will, using autonomous robotic motors for residential customers.

And what we realized is what really mattered were, can you provide a solution that people understand that's not complicated, that's not threatening?

How do you disarm human beings?

Big guy like me on a big machine cuts grass and now you're telling me I don't cut grass anymore.

So there's this whole adoption process.

And so the product, as we've evolved from a software company, a technology company to a software company, to a data analytics company, to an AI powered company that's 75% headless, the product has changed.

I mean, the buying model was different, but this has only happened in six and a half years and half of them have happened in the last two and a half or three years.

So our product and what we deliver,

It's the message is similar, but the product and how it's priced, et cetera, has, has changed for the market to the marketplace.

So it's now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So then so that leads to people being last.

So I think I'm kind of understanding this.

I'm going to preempt your answer because if you can design a business that makes profit

has definable processes that don't rely on a single the owner, the founder, and has a product that is delivered that the market needs and wants, then if you can do it without people, that's what you should do.

Is that what you're saying?

If you're going to have to have people, but now you're putting the people in the spot as opposed to building the whole company around

the people, right?

You're actually protecting people because, you know, it's always, every entrepreneur goes, and you know this, you go through that age-old question, should I hire this person?

Should I not hire this person?

Do they really want to work here?

Do they subscribe to our core values?

So you bet the farm on that one person.

That's a lot of pressure.

If I'm recruiting you to come to my team and I say, listen, I got a profitable business, the processors are in place.

Here's the

standard operating procedures.

Here's the product we deliver.

And I need somebody to come over here and understand all of these things and can be part of the team.

And your specialty is finance.

Your specialty is to manage something that already exists instead of I'm going to hire you as a finance person or I'm going to hire you as the HR person because you're the first person that's going to have to manage everybody or you're the first person who's the salesperson or you're the first person who's an engineer.

So if you can

If you can actually develop it that way, it's a safer bet for the human being, for the employee.

You know, it's the age-old, you know, we've all been employees and it's the, oh, the employer versus the employee.

It's not that.

I think, I don't think that has to be, I mean, for me, I'm a builder.

I like to build things.

It's not like I like to go destroy stuff.

I would rather be in a position where, you know, come up with something that employs, you know, a hundred people versus 10.

And those 100 people are there not only because they're fairly compensated, which by the way, has to do with profit, because you can't fairly compensate anybody if you're not profitable.

So that makes sense.

They understand their job description, which might be tied into the process.

They're enthusiastic about the product because they understand what they're delivering.

So now they're part of the culture.

So now the whole thing comes full circle.

You're like, well, this is awesome.

I get paid well, we make money, I'm part of a team.

We're delivering something in the marketplace that everybody wants.

How could that be wrong?

Yeah.

Well, what's coming to mind right now about this is that if you've gone into a restaurant lately and you've gone maybe a fast food, fast casual, what's happening?

Like the people that used to take your order are no longer there.

What are we dealing with?

We're dealing with kiosks.

And so what the companies that have discovered is that we can make profit through the right process, deliver a product, and if we don't need the person to that function and we can replace it, we'll do that function and we'll pivot the people to something else.

And I think a lot of people are screaming, well, that's going to displace.

You said it at the beginning that people are scared that AI is going to take their jobs.

But here's the thing.

We've gone through all iterations of humanity.

Every revolution that we've gone through has displaced what would have been a human doing work.

There were people picking vegetables by hand and tilling by hand and walking behind an ox or a horse.

And then we developed tractors and combines and things that could do

that on there and then people, oh, you're going to put people out of business.

Well, I would think that that did there, but it opened up room for other innovations to happen.

And we're in the middle of one right now with this AI revolution that we're in today that is going to displace people, that is going to take people's jobs for better or worse, but it opens up the opportunity for new things.

Do you agree with that sentiment?

100%.

I may have shared this with you in episode four, but I always go back to the idea of access to

And how do you flatten the playing field out, right?

I mean, if people can still be innovative, if you can give them the tools, if it's not tiered where you're like, oh, you had to go to the right school or you had the right education or socioeconomic background or you had to live in the right neighborhood, if you could just open it up and say, hey, you have technology that can empower you to write a song

develop an entire business plan in like three minutes using Claude.

It's amazing that the entrepreneurial spirit should be more alive than it's ever been.

The opportunity for everybody to actually go from being an employee, one of those people, to be the person.

right in front of you.

Now, not everyone's there, don't get me wrong, like, that's not that, man, they don't wake up in the morning, go, gosh, I want to risk it all.

And, and be the guy that's, you know, because we all know, it's not that glorious to be the one who's got all the bosses and all the responsibility.

But it does, it gets you closer to, you know, freedom, I mean, financial freedom, etc.

Because you get to, I

I just was having this conversation with my three kids.

Like I've got a 16 year old, 18 year old, 20 year old.

I think I used them as an example five or six years ago.

I am thrilled and proud as a father that they're all gainfully employed and they're all gainfully employed at their age and their hourly rate, which is also amazing to me that they can make that.

So at 16, 18 and 20, they're working.

And as we do early on, we trade time for money.

Right?

And they're in their mind, as they clock those hours, they have to think to themselves, do I want to do this for another five months, five years, 15 years?

Or do I want to enhance my education, embolden my curiosity, meet others, and

either join somebody who's got an idea or feel like I'm more valuable and I want to be more valuable because I'm going to be compensated.

So it's like this incredible opportunity for folks to be empowered.

So it's the irony of it all is like, probably the beginning this podcast, every your listeners like this must be the most cold hearted guy on the planet.

The reality is, I want everybody to exceed meet and exceed their own, you know, personal capabilities or their, their expectations.

And, and that's, to me, that's what thrills me.

I mean, if I can be a builder and help them build themselves and just realize that in confidence, right?

I mean, that

That's a big part of maturity, not arrogance, of course, confidence.

Well, yeah.

Humility.

I agree.

I agree with you.

And before we close, because we're going to wrap it up here in a minute, but I want to give you one minute, and I'm not going to interrupt.

I want you to tell the world as directly and passionately as you can what the lie is, why they've been believing it, and what the truth actually is.

Go.

What the lie is.

Regarding the four P's, I believe that if you're a business owner and you want to be an entrepreneur or not a entrepreneur, that you need to focus in the four P's.

And there's a fifth one, but I'll say it in this order.

Profit first.

Monetize your idea, your service, your widget.

Think about that first.

build a process, systems that are in place so you're not the system.

Your product is going to change.

It's going to be number three because the product is going to be dependent upon the market, the timing of the market, those who are in the market, how you describe what you do in the market.

And the people are the folks that join the team based upon their analytical, their behavior and what you can do because you're putting them in the safest spot to complete the

four Ps.

The last one is perspective and the perspective of all of those things.

You know, what's the respect of your product?

What's the perspective of the process?

How complicated does it need to be?

How much money do you want to make?

What is profit?

What really looks like success?

Is 20% margin good or 70% margin good or 12% margin good?

It's your perspective.

So.

Good stuff.

Yeah.

All right, well, if you wanna find Neil, you can obviously go check his company out at mygoat.co, mygoat.co.

You can look him up on LinkedIn.

It's Neil Amrein.

His last name is spelled, well, let's do your first name too 'cause there's different ways to spell Neil.

N-E-I-L and then A-M-R-H-E-I-N, Neil Amrein.

You can look him up on LinkedIn.

Neil, is there any other links or things you wanna promote before we go to the final question for today?

No, I think that's good.

I appreciate it.

I'm not much of a social media guy, but you can find me and certainly if they find you, they can find me.

That's right.

We'll have it all in the show notes.

Well, final question.

If somebody's listening right now and they're still struggling with this lie that we've tried to expose, I think I still believe it.

What's one thing you want them to hear before this episode ends today?

I would say no matter who you are, if you're a business owner or you're not, regardless of what you're doing in life, whether it's

personal, professional, or otherwise, protect your attention.

Protect your attention.

There's so many things that waste your time and energy and effort, and people don't protect their attention like they should.

We don't.

I would advise and share that it's important to remember that we shouldn't become masters of the chaos.

Clear thinking Trump's hardworking.

And that's only when you're looking for signals and avoiding the noise.

Neil, thank you for being on the show.

Appreciate your friendship and look forward to seeing you again real soon.

Thank you, sir.

Take care.

Well, that's a wrap on today's episode.

If you saw a bar on your cage you hadn't noticed before, send this episode to somebody who needs to see theirs.

The gold is the lie.

As always, I'm your host, the real Jason Duncan, and Jesus is king.

We'll see you next time.

Thanks for listening to this episode.

Remember, we release new episodes every single Monday, so make sure you tune in.

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